Comments on: Simulation As A Way of Knowing: First Reflections on Will Wright’s Keynote at the 5th Annual Innovations in e-Learning Conference. http://www.trevorowens.org/2009/06/simulation-as-a-way-of-knowing-first-reflections-on-will-wrights-keynote-at-the-5th-annual-innovations-in-e-learning-conference/ | games | online learning | digital history | Fri, 12 Mar 2010 17:57:34 +0000 http://wordpress.org/?v=2.9.1 hourly 1 By: Trevor http://www.trevorowens.org/2009/06/simulation-as-a-way-of-knowing-first-reflections-on-will-wrights-keynote-at-the-5th-annual-innovations-in-e-learning-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-160 Trevor Fri, 05 Jun 2009 17:03:24 +0000 http://www.trevorowens.org/?p=486#comment-160 Great point Frank! <blockquote>the more significant factor in evaluating the role of the audience in the creation of the work may not be the mechanics of the two media, but the economics of their creation."</blockquote> While I would be willing to concede this point I think there is still much to be explored in the openended nature of the sort of sandboxes that these possibility space games offer. For example, a game like Civilization that provides the ability to mod the game with a bit of XML chops gives the entire world of players a wide range of opportunities to actually change the game experience. There are actually a lot of folks that are trying to rewrite the structure of these games to offer very different frames for viewing the world. Rob: I think your dead on on the distorting nature of simulation, but I'm not sure that it is that much stronger than the distorting influences that come through other modes. For example, written texts impose a level of linearity and order to stories that isn't necessarily there. At the same time one of the other points that Will hit home was that "Simulation is a great tool for spotlighting our ignorance of a system." The act of modeling, of representing, of simulating offers a very concrete, tactile means to test our ideas about the factors in a system. The end product, the simulation, often offers users a very visceral gut reaction to the assumptions behind the model which articulated in another format would not force the same reaction. Great point Frank!
the more significant factor in evaluating the role of the audience in the creation of the work may not be the mechanics of the two media, but the economics of their creation.”

While I would be willing to concede this point I think there is still much to be explored in the openended nature of the sort of sandboxes that these possibility space games offer. For example, a game like Civilization that provides the ability to mod the game with a bit of XML chops gives the entire world of players a wide range of opportunities to actually change the game experience. There are actually a lot of folks that are trying to rewrite the structure of these games to offer very different frames for viewing the world.

Rob: I think your dead on on the distorting nature of simulation, but I’m not sure that it is that much stronger than the distorting influences that come through other modes. For example, written texts impose a level of linearity and order to stories that isn’t necessarily there. At the same time one of the other points that Will hit home was that “Simulation is a great tool for spotlighting our ignorance of a system.” The act of modeling, of representing, of simulating offers a very concrete, tactile means to test our ideas about the factors in a system. The end product, the simulation, often offers users a very visceral gut reaction to the assumptions behind the model which articulated in another format would not force the same reaction.

]]> By: Rob MacD http://www.trevorowens.org/2009/06/simulation-as-a-way-of-knowing-first-reflections-on-will-wrights-keynote-at-the-5th-annual-innovations-in-e-learning-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-159 Rob MacD Fri, 05 Jun 2009 16:16:32 +0000 http://www.trevorowens.org/?p=486#comment-159 Jealous! "For Will when gamers play games they are actually reverse engineering the game as they play it. While a parent watching their child play Wolfenstein might be taken back by the violence Wright suggests that Kids see the higher level of abstraction the power-ups, a door to the next level. In their minds its more like playing chess. They are abstracting the grammar of these game worlds." Yes, absolutely. This is what I (stealing from Ted Friedman and Andrew Galloway) was trying to articulate in the second half of <a href="http://www.robmacdougall.org/index.php/2007/07/madness-and-civilization-iii/" rel="nofollow">this old post</a>. In a more contentious vein: "simulation is a powerful way in which to understand the world." Yes indeedy, but is it a good way? The simulating impulse can often be distorting if not destructive. Jealous!

“For Will when gamers play games they are actually reverse engineering the game as they play it. While a parent watching their child play Wolfenstein might be taken back by the violence Wright suggests that Kids see the higher level of abstraction the power-ups, a door to the next level. In their minds its more like playing chess. They are abstracting the grammar of these game worlds.”

Yes, absolutely. This is what I (stealing from Ted Friedman and Andrew Galloway) was trying to articulate in the second half of this old post.

In a more contentious vein: “simulation is a powerful way in which to understand the world.” Yes indeedy, but is it a good way? The simulating impulse can often be distorting if not destructive.

]]> By: Frank Bennett http://www.trevorowens.org/2009/06/simulation-as-a-way-of-knowing-first-reflections-on-will-wrights-keynote-at-the-5th-annual-innovations-in-e-learning-conference/comment-page-1/#comment-158 Frank Bennett Fri, 05 Jun 2009 07:55:43 +0000 http://www.trevorowens.org/?p=486#comment-158 Color me skeptical on the question of whether the imaginative possibilities afforded by gaming environments are larger than those of common or garden written discourse. It would seem to me that, viewed strictly as literature, games are likely to tap on a smaller field of the more intensely held values. The reasoning behind that thought is that, because success in the field is measured by mass-market appeal on an international scale, that would necessarily push authors toward scenarios and symbols with a least-common-denominator quality. National and local literatures of the traditional type are not subject to the same constraints, and can tap a vein of shared experience that runs deeper, with a sparser set of signals. In other words, the more significant factor in evaluating the role of the audience in the creation of the work may not be the mechanics of the two media, but the economics of their creation. Color me skeptical on the question of whether the imaginative possibilities afforded by gaming environments are larger than those of common or garden written discourse. It would seem to me that, viewed strictly as literature, games are likely to tap on a smaller field of the more intensely held values. The reasoning behind that thought is that, because success in the field is measured by mass-market appeal on an international scale, that would necessarily push authors toward scenarios and symbols with a least-common-denominator quality. National and local literatures of the traditional type are not subject to the same constraints, and can tap a vein of shared experience that runs deeper, with a sparser set of signals.

In other words, the more significant factor in evaluating the role of the audience in the creation of the work may not be the mechanics of the two media, but the economics of their creation.

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